2 years agoMy take: I would have expected Apple to show more leadership here.
See also:
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I suspect Houston looks like most big cities but I could be wrong. Harris County web site (most of Houston is in Harris Counth) including children, Black or African American are about 27% vaccinated, hispanics 36% vaccinated, whites 44% vaccinated.
Kids distort the numbers – Harris County (per state web site) is 55% over age 12, and 77% over 65.
Also, keep in mind that with vaccination rates of 70% and post-covid infection rates at 50%, the majority of cases is going to be in previously vaccinated populations. The death rates will still be an order of magnitude or more in the vaccinated groups.
Amen to that. Not getting vaccinated puts far too many others at risk besides yourself – however, exceptions need to be made for folks with allergies or other medical issues related to vaccines! (Frequent testing instead for them!)
Apple routinely takes the high road in public policy matters, so their omission from this list is very curious, and disappointing.
Short of mandating vaccinations, I’m in favor of presenting proof of vaccination to gain entry to events, restaurants, retail establishments, etc.
“Apple routinely takes the high road in public policy matters, so their omission from this list is very curious, and disappointing.”
Who knows why CNN took the route it took….
For some, it’s fairly easy. If you’re over 70, and/or overweight, and/or diabetic, and/or any age with a condition that may make you at risk, the vaccine seems like a pretty wise choice.
For some, it’s not an easy choice, though. Take an unvaccinated 25 year old that’s had Covid. What might happen in 25 years? There’s no reason to get a currently inferior vaccine, to the already produced and proven natural antibodies. So, we’re asking Apple mandate that person get an unproven vaccine? No, thanks. I’d say Apple *is* leading, at least for now.
People have been taking the COVID vaccine for more than a year now. If there were going to be side effects, we’d know about them.
To suggest that the COVID vaccine isn’t safe because we don’t know the long term side effects from it is disinformation. Period. Full stop.
Note: Unless advised by a doctor, if you are over 24, there is little reason to not get the vaccine from a purely risk based assessment but I do understand the reluctance some people have. Tuskegee anyone. The government has given 1,000,000’s of people a reason to NOT trust them.
There are also real dangers with the vaccine driving mutant variants faster due to selection pressures. Look to the UK. 50% of cases are breakthrough cases. Given the highly targeted nature of the vaccine, breakthrough cases will, more than likely, be highly infectious to others with the vaccine. In short, lots more unknowns than knowns.
The problem with this is the radical changes in messaging from the press pre and post election. Pre election, our current VP was full on anti-vax. Media from CNN, WaPo, HuffPost and MSNBC were all warning of potential long term effects and the dangers of the vaccine. Post election, the messaging changed. Radically.
This radical change in messages has eroded all trust in the media (driven only by hate by the media) and they are 100% responsible for the slow uptake of the vaccine.
Now, a new NIH-supported study shows that the answer to this question will vary based on how an individual’s antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 were generated: over the course of a naturally acquired infection or from a COVID-19 vaccine. The new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying “single letter” changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection.
These results add to evidence that people with acquired immunity may have differing levels of protection to emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants. More importantly, the data provide further documentation that those who’ve had and recovered from a COVID-19 infection still stand to benefit from getting vaccinated.
—————————
So the 25 year old who got the “alpha” variant could end up getting screwed when they get delta, next week.
Antibody responses following SARS-CoV-2 infection more potent than vaccine-elicited ones
“Memory antibodies selected over time by natural infection have greater potency and breadth than antibodies elicited by vaccination,” says Michel Nussenzweig and colleagues.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.29.454333v1.full
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.29.454333v1.full.pdf
Summary
“Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) {{infection produces B-cell responses that continue to evolve for at least one year}}.
{{During that time, memory B cells express increasingly broad and potent antibodies that are resistant to mutations found in variants of concern}}1.
As a result, {{vaccination of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) {{{{convalescent individuals with currently available mRNA vaccines}}}} produces high levels of plasma neutralizing activity against all variants tested}}1, 2.
Here, {{we examine memory B cell evolution 5 months after vaccination with either Moderna (mRNA-1273) or Pfizer-BioNTech (BNT162b2) mRNA vaccines in a cohort of SARS-CoV-2 naïve individuals}}.
{{Between prime and boost, memory B cells produce antibodies that evolve increased neutralizing activity, but there is no further increase in potency or breadth thereafter. Instead, memory B cells that emerge 5 months after vaccination of naïve individuals express antibodies that are equivalent to those that dominate the initial response}}. We conclude that memory antibodies selected over time by natural infection have greater potency and breadth than antibodies elicited by vaccination.
{{These results suggest that
{{{{boosting vaccinated individuals with currently available mRNA vaccines}}}}
would produce a {{{{quantitative increase}}}} in plasma neutralizing activity
but not the {{{{qualitative advantage against variants}}}} obtained by
{{{{vaccinating convalescent individuals}}}}. }}
1) Covid Infected patients developed B-Cell responses (antibodies) that continued to evolve over at least 1 year. They develop increasing broad and potent Antibiodies resistant to mutations in variants of concern.
2) Vaccination of Covid convalescent individuals (assuming they survived) with “currently available mRNA vaccines” produces “high levels of plasma neutralizing activity against all variants tested”.
3) Non-prior infected & unvaccinated people who are vaccinated with mRNA vaccines develop antibodies which “evolve with increased neutralizing activity” between prime and boost, but after boost, the antibodies are “equivalent to those that dominate the initial response”, that is, they are same but not expanded breadth.
4) importantly, here is the money quotes – “Memory antibodies selected over time by natural infection have greater potency and breadth than antibodies elicited by vaccination”, {assuming you survive infection or hospitalization, you did not spread the disease further, and not discussing any lingering or long term symptoms}, my emphasis.
5) Finally “These results suggest that boosting vaccinated individuals…would produce Quantitative increases in plasma neutralizing activity” but “not the Qualitative advantage against variants obtained by VACCINATING CONVALESCENT INDIVIDUALS”, again my emphasis.
Here is a quote from a recent WSJ article (I’ll link separately so as to avoid moderation) regarding Delta and vaccination vs infected/convalescent responses:
“In a May study in the scientific journal Nature, researchers found Covid-19-specific immune cells in the bone marrow from 15 of 19 patients who had experienced a mild infection as much as eight months earlier. That indicates that their bodies were forming a lasting immune memory against the virus, said Ali Ellebedy, an associate professor of pathology and immunology at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and the senior author on the study.
“Those people have some partial protection remaining for a long time,” Dr. Ellebedy said.
“Immunologists and health authorities caution that not everyone generates a robust immune response following a Covid-19 infection, especially people who are older or have weakened immune systems. Immune response also likely depends on how much virus a person was exposed to or how ill they became, they say. Vaccines appear to confer more consistent protection than infection.”
“Full vaccination provides solid protection against Delta, studies suggest, though the variant chips away at the immune response. A recent study in Nature that looked at blood samples found that two doses of the Pfizer or AstraZeneca PLC vaccines offered neutralizing protection against Delta in 95% of people, while a single dose barely inhibited the variant. {{Antibodies in blood samples taken from participants infected up to 12 months earlier were LESS PROTECTIVE against the Delta variant than the Alpha variant, previously the most dominant variant in the U.S.}} my emphasis
{{Covid-19 vaccines STRENGTHEN (my emphasis) the immune response among people who have been previously infected}}, immunologists say. In one cohort of 63 previously infected participants, 41% of whom were subsequently vaccinated, researchers found that people who had been infected but not vaccinated generated an immune response up to a year later.
People who were vaccinated after being infected generated more-effective antibody responses against viral mutations.
“They basically become bulletproof,” “It’s a big difference.”
Who said that??
“said Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at the Rockefeller University and senior author on the study.”
“The CDC and many health authorities recommend that people who have previously had Covid-19 still get vaccinated to boost their immune response.”
I agree and apparently Michel Nussenzweig does too, and he has the studies to back up the immunological reasons why to do so. I’d rather everyone be as bulletproof as possible, health and lives depend on it, and IMO, would also reduce variant and COVID spread as well.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-immune-response-could-be-long-lasting-but-variants-present-risks-11626439371
Natural means getting COVID-19 and surviving. No thank you. I’ll take my chances with the “inferior” antibodies provided by the vaccine.
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Dan
Inferior? Says who? Both Pfizer and Moderna provide a very high degree of protection (~95%), better than many other vaccines, some of which I’m sure you’ve taken. What exactly is in your academic background that’s superior to medical science professionals w/stellar credentials?
And the implication that all under the age of 70 develop natural anti-bodies from infection fails to consider how many more people would die from that exposure.
Watching too much Fox News?
1. What ARE Apple’s rules for “returning to work”? (crickets)
2. The biggest area of concern has to be the Apple Store. Here are the rules:
“Under Apple’s new procedures, stores with walk-in service will require customers and employees to undergo temperature checks and wear masks before entering. Apple will provide masks to customers who have none. Social-distancing rules will limit the number of people in the store at one time, which Apple said could create delays for walk-in customers.”
3. Are you saying that customers now have to provide proof of vaccine before they can mix with staff? (crickets) And how does CNN know how Apple is handling this? (again, crickets)
4. Just how proactive has Apple been about protecting not only its workers but its customers, and how does that compare with other companies? Is this a truly exhaustive list? (crickets) Note that what CNN actually said was “Here are the companies that have announced COVID-19 vaccine requirements for at least some of their employees.” Note “at least some”. How is that a complete and comprehensive list? Please!
My suggestion: Next time, make sure you’ve thought things through before allowing your opinions free rein….
FYI, I asked Apple for their vaccination policy before I posted the item.
“FYI, I asked Apple for their vaccination policy before I posted the item.“
And they said…?
Crickets. Which is standard operating procedure at Apple PR when there is nothing to be gained by answering.
““And they said…?”
Crickets. Which is standard operating procedure at Apple PR…”
I could wish that you had just said so, and left it at that….
What’s the law in Texas about employers and vaccines? Could this be a case of Apple not having to manage rules for each jurisdiction?
Been watching AAPL’s trading action today, and trading action strongly suggests the institutions are buying up AAPL.
The average per-minute volume today has been about 150K shares. That includes 6 spikes commencing at about 11:45 AM Eastern wherein per minute volume tripled the average. Of those, two were very notable achieving 1.16 Million shares per minute and 1.39 Million shares per minute respectively.
The accelerated buying stopped at $147.96, just shy of the intraday high of $148.045 (block trade price).
Were these Apple buybacks, or could this post-earnings selloff be coming to a quick end?
Let that make the rounds on Slack.
Tell that to my two friends who both got it – again. And next time you refer to a study, please post the link. Finally, I’d look twice at any report from Rockefeller, who only recently disclosed the sexual abuse scandal that they were aware of for 40 years.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/rockefeller-reginald-archibald-report-sexual-abuse
There are deeply divided and passionate feelings on this issue. They involve dogmatic and notable exceptions ranging from politics, to religious and personal liberties in search of workable solutions exploring decision making positions while tempering the rhetoric and advancing the search for a practical answer. I only can assume PED wanted “clicks,” and clicks you are getting. Apple investors I recruited the past several years have forwarded this post to members of their congregations, who have forwarded the post to their respective pastors who have forwarded it on to their political leaders. There already is enough vitriol in my geographic region without interjecting a CNN news article presenting Apple fodder for creating additional firestorms the vaccination issue already has ignited. This issue needed not be presented in this forum and it disappoints me deeply. This post doesn’t help me one iota with my Apple investment. Apple 3.0 is a forum that should drive Apple investors together for discussion, not drive them apart.
On your other point, I don’t think the purpose of PED’s blog is to exclusively cover Apple as an “investment strategy” – it seems to me he covers Apple in a pretty holistic way, from the recovery of long sunk iPhones to its environmental policies to whatever ill-informed article appears in the WSJ. However, I do agree with you that PED does drop the occasional post that can easily become infused with political comments, and there is little doubt it leads to greater engagement (and comments) from his readers. E.g. just look at the number of comments on this piece! 🙂
The hardest thing to wrap my mind about in this whole sorry mess is coming to grips with how effortlessly self-destructive so many people have been, and are. It’s so hard to understand.
Yup. Your’s was the shove that got this ball rolling.
That’s because not everyone is like you brother David. You’re probably the same person who says that a woman has the right to get an abortion because abortion is a key part of her liberty, equality and economic security. But politicians, you say, keep passing laws with the goal of making it more difficult, if not impossible for women to get an abortion. Yet, you think nothing of the government or an Employer mandating laws and policies for big brother or the Employer to inject something inside people’s bodies. Many people of faith view their bodies as the temple of the Holy Spirit who lives within and they question, or at least they are hesitant, injecting anything inside their bodies.
Republicans have more faith in the individual American, whereas Democrats put their faith in the ability of elected elites to define and to determine what’s best for average Americans. Many Americans feel under siege by their government leaders and now, under siege by their Employers.
Individuals have an inalienable right to decide what goes inside their bodies. That is the epitome of personal freedom. The Democrats are seeking to assert government control over personal behavior, an intrusiveness most Democrats would have once opposed. The conservative movement to which I subscribe has a basic tenet in the belief that the government (and Employers) should stay out of people’s private lives. Government governs best when it governs least.
“Individuals have an inalienable right to decide what goes inside their bodies.”
You can’t have it both ways, Jerry. It’s hypocritical to suggest that killing innocent people is somehow okay because “liberals” have supported women’s right to choose. If someone really believes in the sanctity of life, then they’ll be first in line to get their vaccinations.
And no, they don’t have that inalienable right. Recall that all rights are granted to you in exchange for responsible action. That’s why we have the rule of law in this country; to enforce responsible action. Ergo, the rule of law supersedes individual rights.
You do not have the right to infringe my rights. That’s why we have the rule of law.
If you have a better solution, let’s hear it.
“Your rights are not being infringed upon…… You’re free to get the vaccine.”
In my specific case, that’s not true. I’m completely vaccinated, but I’m still being threatened by those who aren’t vaccinating. Turns out I’m (1) old, and (2) have a pre-existing condition that still makes it life-threatening if I come down with Covid-19.
Nice try. No cigar.
However, I strongly champion the *right* of a company to say, “You have a choice. If your choice is to work for us in our offices, you have to get vaccinated. If you choose not to get vaccinated, you cannot work for us in our offices.” (*) [Subject to fine-print concerning people who for medical reasons may not be able to receive a vaccine.]
Just like my company doesn’t allow people to smoke inside, because it’s harmfu to othersl, I see no reason they should let people breathe out dangerous viruses either. If there was an option that allowed people to kill themselves by not taking the vaccine, that didn’t harm me, I’d be all for it.
Sadly, there is not, so their behavior impacts me.
“Just like my company doesn’t allow people to smoke inside, because it’s harmful to others, I see no reason they should let people breathe out dangerous viruses either.”
Of course. But there’s a lot of ways to skin that particular cat, and to come down on Apple when you don’t know all the facts about exactly how they’re doing it is just plain knee-jerk reactionism, which I dislike from whichever direction it emanates. Apple is THE most pro-active company the world has ever seen. That should count for something.
I totally get it’s complicated: you’ve got a lot of workers, some in offices, some not. (That’s true for Disney and Apple: Disney Cast members at parks, vs in-office workers). You’ve got people in the US, you’ve got people not in the US (presumably with possibly no vaccine access yet, depending on the country).
I’m just saying that if Disney can set this in motion for their corporate US work force, Apple could have (by now) as well. Still hoping they will. For myself, knowing that the percentage of vaccinated co-workers is as high as anything we’re ever going to see is a good thing.
“I’m just saying that if Disney can set this in motion for their corporate US work force, Apple could have (by now) as well.”
And I’m saying it’s easy to say that, but you’re not in possession of enough actual facts to unreservedly make that blanket statement. Nor, for that matter, am I. But I’m inclined to cut Apple some slack since they are, as I say, demonstrably pro-active in this arena.
That is NOT, btw, the same thing as agreeing to everything Apple does. I’m particularly disappointed in the way they treat their “temporary” workers, for example. Having been one for a solid year a few years back.
QUESTION: To all the anti-vaccers:
What’s worse, dying from the virus or risking a “side effect”?
FACT: Those getting and spreading the virus now are those that have not been vaccinated. That is an indisputable fact. Any exception to that is minuscule and irrelevant.
QUESTION: Did you just call the death of 1200+ people (those that have died from COVID-19 while being fully vaccinated) “irrelevant”?
In other words, if they change their employee requirements for vaccinations in say only California, they would have to do it everywhere. Otherwise they would get a ton of blowback.
They are a big multinational company dealing with a lot of criticism.
W/Apple Park, work from home/remotely is still postponed so vaccination status is not required (yet) but likely being considered IF significant #’s are asked to return – compare w/Google, FB, Twitter whose policy for employees “returning to the office”. Similar for Financial, business, etc., “returning to the office”. Disney, Netflix, Lyft, Uber, etc. are heavily consumer / personal physical facing so their reopenings depend on keeping employees active & not spreading/getting infected to/from consumers.
The Apple Store is the biggest direct worry for customer facing employees & customers so Apple’s restrictions regarding masking, temp checks, spacing, occupancy are their first line of defense. Since there are so many different locales and local health regs (or lack of same), it isn’t easy for Apple to come up w/an all-encompassing vaccination policy for employees or even customers, although its possible for Apple to mandate it if they so choose. However, Walmart has an interesting incentive program:
“Walmart, the nation’s largest retailer, said all its U.S.-based corporate employees must be vaccinated by Oct. 4, according to a Friday memo from Doug McMillon, the company’s president and CEO.
This mandate does not apply to Walmart’s store employees, but it will soon implement a new process to verify their vaccine status and is offering employees the chance to get vaccinated while on the clock (along with up to three days paid leave for any reaction to the shot). The company is also doubling its current vaccine incentive to $150; current employees who get vaccinated and new employees who were vaccinated before they started at Walmart are all eligible to receive the bonus.”
Sigh, its complicated. IMO, Apple management is taking its time (struggling?) w/how best to proceed – blanket, measured and local, employee blowback, etc.
And yes, IMO, its an Apple investor issue as this affects the health/well being of Apple’s most important assets, its people/employees, workplaces, & reputation & leadership in doing the best it can in making decisions for employee health, & larger sphere of consumers/communities where Apple employees work, play, & live.
On an even wider scale, Apple may also have to consider how to address supplier vaccination, Covid mitigation at factories, warehousing, transport hubs, plus customer support, repair centers, & call centers around the world.
One of the most level-headed posts today. Thanks, Bart!
The current US vaccination situation, per NPR, is roughly 346 million doses of vaccine have been administered, 165M fully vaccinated or 49.7% of the total US population by today, August 3. At current rates of vaccination (which seem to be creeping up from July lows) of 690K+ doses/day, 7-day moving average, some projections suggest we reach 70% fully vaccinated by end of March, 2022. As well known, vaccination rates vary considerably among states and regions, so there will be strong interest in how this plays out regarding morbidity and mortality, plus stress on healthcare systems again both short and long term.
There are no projections yet regarding any boosters of current or delta variant-specific vaccines, although there is a lot of discussions and study and development ongoing regarding its need and eventual efficacy. We here in the US are, IMO, extremely lucky to have this capability and expertise, as compared to many other countries and regions around the world who are less fortunate or able. Many countries are relying on the US, Europe and other nations to provide/donate vaccines to them in order to curb infection and hospitalization rates in their countries.
As many report, there are still breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated, but the rate is much lower and the bulk of breakthroughs result in much much lower hospitalization rates and subsequent deaths, but its not 100%. What is most concerning at least to me is the Delta variant is much more transmissible, and is negatively affecting a much wider and younger age range of patients (15-50) than the original Alpha version. This isn’t unexpected in pandemics where infections travel in waves among hosts worldwide and mutations and variants appear with altered characteristics.